Avatar of HollowRain #2517
HollowRain #2517
Blunt Barb Truths about the Initial 2.1 PTR(1)Category: PTR FeedbackJune-29-2014 6:02 AM PDT (5 years ago) Go to Blizzard forum post
Updated Thread at: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/13438123776

Disclaimer: I am by no means raging at this point - I understand that this is the first PTR patch and there will be more changes on the horizon; but for that to be a positive progression towards live for Barbarians, I feel the need to feedback even to supposedly deaf ears.

Pet AI and the Removal of Snapshotting:

Okay, so understandably snapshotting feels clunky and pretty undesirable in regards to how the CotA is being used on live servers currently. However, improved AI simply is not compensating for the removal of snapshotting. Especially in regards to the Ancient's Fury rune, CotA simply does not do enough to be worth it. The only reason it is used currently is because leapquake is dominant and does not generate enough fury to use a spender reliably - do not let this fool the development team; CotA is not powerful enough in it's own right, it simply fits with the current LeapQauke reign

Possible solutions: Keep snapshotting, or buff the damage of CotA across the board, or buff the IK set bonuses to add more to CotA's merits.

Furious Charge changes

NB: I'm assuming these changes were in view of boosting the Raekor vaibility.

As a player I can see the intent to make this a more usable skill - especially in regards to the Raekor set. However, the cold hard facts as have been repeated on this forum is that it is not enough. The choice of elements is pleasing in my view - even if freeze over stun is slightly controversial. The truth is though, that the damage output of this set is too underwhelming to justify using the Raekor set and this is a symptom of the skill Furious charge itself.
The damage and fury generation is mob dense areas is good and definitely usable but the bottom line is that there are various scenarios you encounter with 3 or less big HP mobs (elites etc) that are fully or semi-isolated and this mitigates any delight you get from the ideal scenarios because the damage and fury gen is just plain underwhelming in these scenarios even with the buffs it has received.

Possible solutions: (recommended) Shift the FC all runes bonus to 4 set and add a bigger 6 set bonus - dcw's suggestion of a warmaster bonus that allows DWing 2handers is quite thematically appealing. Other options include reworking the CDR rune for FC into something else and having the 5 set Raekor bonus have 'FC gains all runes and has its CD shortened by 50%' - this would nerf the mob dense power a little but would greatly increase the 1-3 target viability as you could use some CDR gear to have a near 1 second CD on charge to generate more fury on single targets.

Low Quality Demo of Charge Damage/Fury issues - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLbUB5rgQO4&feature=youtu.be


The (presumably) unintended side effect of reinforcing LeapQuake's dominance

So the broadening of element choices was the one solid positive from the 2.1 PTR notes but it isn't enough by itself. In doing this without buffing non-EQ skills to a large enough degree, has engendered most of our options to gravitate to the LeapQuake again. For example, ColdQuake is now decently popular and is decently fun to be honest but it is still leaping without spenders for the most part. Similarly, lightningquake variants using the new DD and berserker rage with Frenzy is fairly strong and feels a little more Barbarian-like, but it isn't enough. The biggest truth I can tell the development team is that Barbarians are tired of ONLY leaping - we need diversity and this frustration was exacerbated by the Earthen Might nerf that means we can't even spend fury in an optimal LeapQuake build because it doesn't generate enough.

Possible solutions: A 2.0.5-Crusader equivalent for Barbarians is pretty much the necessary solution but in the short term a U-turn on the Earthen Might-MotE synergy nerf would be decent.

Rend will soon be a D3 meme joke

So this skill was great for 48 hours when it could benefit twice from crit chance and crit damage. Adding 100% more weapon damage is just plain confusing - what was the motive? That isn't nearly enough to make Rend okay. The element diversity is good in my view once again, but quite frankly, this isn't a buff - broadening rune elements is merely facilitating a potential for a skill but there is no potential for Rend in it's current form unless (as I think you may be doing) you're bringing a good amount of item support for rend builds in future.

Possible solutions: Make Rend deal at least 1700% over 5 seconds or 1100% over 3 seconds (roughly as good as Haunt for WD) or add item support as I think you may be doing

This is all the gripes I have with the actual changes that have occurred so far - there are plenty more issues that myself and the barb community have aired in this thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12504562284 . Whilst I understand this is subject to change in more PTR patches; these are really glaring issues with the steps you've tried to make in regard to the Barbarian class and we are nowhere closer to the WD benchmark the development team are happy with. There are a few positives like more elements for skills but this is merely a facilitation for existing potential which as I have stated is lacking at the current time for the vast majority of Barbarian skills . So with kind regards, I wish to tell the development team to get their thinking caps on and their reading glasses from their collar, so this class can finally get back to a good state.

- Hollow
[Post edited one time, last edit by HollowRain#2517 at July-14-2014 8:37 AM PDT (5 years ago)]
Avatar of Nevalistis
Nevalistis
Blunt Barb Truths about the Initial 2.1 PTR(46)July-3-2014 5:00 PM PDT (5 years ago) Go to Blizzard forum post
Let me preface this with something that's acknowledged in the OP but I want to reiterate: We've only just started, and you're looking at a first pass on a lot of things. What's currently on the PTR is not 100% indicative of what to expect when Patch 2.1 hits live servers.

As a test realm, it's as much our playground as it is yours for experimenting and trying new things. Some of those things work, some of them don't and need additional attention. In any event, there's more to come, particularly when we launch the first test Season on the PTR.

Posted by: HollowRain

Okay, so understandably snapshotting feels clunky and pretty undesirable in regards to how the CotA is being used on live servers currently. However, improved AI simply is not compensating for the removal of snapshotting. Especially in regards to the Ancient's Fury rune, CotA simply does not do enough to be worth it.


Snapshotting isn't something we plan on keeping in. As you mention, it's clunky and it encourages awkward gameplay that we don't want to be the norm. That said, we have (and will continue) to pass on your feedback and concerns. It's possible CotA may warrant another look.

Posted by: HollowRain

The truth is though, that the damage output of this set is too underwhelming to justify using the Raekor set and this is a symptom of the skill Furious charge itself.


There's a bunch of awesome Furious Charge changes coming to the PTR soon™. We’re making some improvements to its pathfinding, increasing its travel distance and speed, and polishing it up to make sure using this skill is a more smooth experience. Items will also synergize better with Furious Charge – Vile Ward is being revamped with a sweet new Legendary power for Furious Charge and +% Damage to Furious Charge is being added as a possible item affix for 2-handed Mighty Weapons, Shoulders, and Chest pieces. Overall, you should see some significant buffs here. Hopefully they'll all be making the next PTR build and you can let us know how they feel! :)

We're super slammed with reading through and passing on all the awesome feedback you guys are providing, and our devs are hard at work on additional class and item changes, balancing the Greater Rift reward systems, getting Seasons up to snuff for testing, and a plethora of other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting right this moment. As we get more info and patches out there, we're eager to see your reactions and to hear what you have to say about upcoming changes.
[Post edited one time, last edit by Lylirra at July-3-2014 5:23 PM PDT (5 years ago)]
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