Avatar of BobtheSlayer #1289
BobtheSlayer #1289
Grift Death Wait Timer forces players to not play(1)Category: PTR FeedbackNovember-20-2014 8:21 AM PST (5 years ago) Go to Blizzard forum post
Updated and Edited 11-21

In the PTR when a player dies they are now able to res on their corpse. This is a great addition but it comes with a price, you have to wait 5x seconds before respawning where x is the amount of times you have died before in the Grift. It caps out at 30 seconds.
This new Greater Rift death timer is an excellent idea to prevent players from having to run a long way back to their corpse and it prevents checkpoint death exploits.
However...

My experience
I have noticed that the first couple of deaths with this new system give me a sense of relief. I do not need to run some insane distance and completely lose the Grift. After the timer starts getting past 15 seconds though, I start to get more frustrated than I was before when I had to run back.
The problem is that the Player is being forced to sit and not play the game as a penalty for dying. Once the death timer gets high enough, I just tab out. I am not interested in sitting in a 'death lobby' screen.
A second problem with the Respawn on corpse method is the rough Packs. If I get a pack that I am just not equipped to handle they are going to instakill me until my gear is red. Once that happens, it is a stretch to get away from them to tp out.
Imagine this scenario. I am playing, getting crushed by a Thunderstorm or Jailer mob, my gear is now red and the object of the game is no longer about me destroying the Elite pack. Instead it is about me running away, back tracking and losing progress, in order to teleport back to town and fix my stuff. This process will absolutely be a cause of Failing a Grift.
This is not a fun style of gameplay. I suppose it can be countered that I should play a more defensive build, but I am playing a DH and they are just naturally squishy.

A solution?
Do not force the player to not play the game. That is always going to be a poor choice. We are playing for time in a Grift. Why not penalize our time? When I die I would like the option to revive on my corpse or to revive at a checkpoint. I need to be penalized for this though and why not penalize my time? Add on a couple of seconds to the time elapsed meter.

Example:
In SOLO PLAY If I die and I have these options:
-to res on my corpse with a 5x second penalty to the Grift time elapsed (not a wait timer)
-to res at the last checkpoint with a 5x second penalty (not a wait timer)

With this system I am no longer trying to calculate the time it is going to take me to run. Instead I am given the option to try to reset my position to gain a favorable advantage but I have take more time to do so. I can also continue destroying demons where I fell. This takes away that calculation your are so worried about.

As far as the numbers, I think incremental penalties is correct. Going in 5 second increments like we currently have in the "Waiting to play the game screen" feels right. Penalizing players from using builds that are far too squishy for the content they are trying to do is likely a good idea. .

To spell it out for those who don't read text walls:
1st Death: 0 second wait, 0 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
2nd Death: 0 second wait, 5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
3nd Death: 0 second wait, 10 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
4nd Death: 0 second wait, 15 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
5nd Death: 0 second wait, 20 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
6th Death: 0 second wait, 25 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
7th Death: 0 second wait, 30 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint

As for Group Play
Use the same system, but divide the Penalty by the number of players in the Grift. This would attribute each player's 'worth' as 1/x of the time penalty and would allow players to get back into the game rapidly with some penalty. Having the same option to res on corpse or checkpoint will allow players to make that HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL tactical decision of ressing at corpse and getting Murded until your gear is red, or at a safe checkpoint. (aren't checkpoints supposed to exist to save your progress anyways?)

Example:
Two Players
1st Death: 0 second wait, 0 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
2nd Death: 0 second wait, 2.5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
3nd Death: 0 second wait, 5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
4nd Death: 0 second wait, 7.5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
5nd Death: 0 second wait, 10 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
6th Death: 0 second wait, 12.5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
7th Death: 0 second wait, 15 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint

Three Players
1st Death: 0 second wait, 0 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
2nd Death: 0 second wait, 1.67 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
3nd Death: 0 second wait, 3.33 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
4nd Death: 0 second wait, 5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
5nd Death: 0 second wait, 6.67 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
6th Death: 0 second wait, 8.33 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
7th Death: 0 second wait, 10 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint

Four Players
1st Death: 0 second wait, 0 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
2nd Death: 0 second wait, 1.25 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
3nd Death: 0 second wait, 2.5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
4nd Death: 0 second wait, 3.75 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
5nd Death: 0 second wait, 5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
6th Death: 0 second wait, 6.25 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint
7th Death: 0 second wait, 7.5 second Grift Timer Penalty for res on corpse or checkpoint

What would this accomplish?
First off forcing players to wait to play the game as a penalty is not a good idea. It will cause frustration and rage quit. In a group game it is a bit less severe because you can potentially be ress'd by your group. However, having the option of instantly being back into the fight and helping is a nice touch. Of course there needs to be a penalty for this, which is where the above comes into play.
A system that allows players to die without severe penalty is going to be laughed at by the hardcore community, but it will allow diversity of builds. Of course some of the squishier builds are going to have a skill cap, but they will be possible. On the other side of the coin, if a player is constantly dying they are going to rack up time real fast and fail the Grfit and this will encourage tankier builds.

Ending Thoughts
This system is still going to let the player res at their body or the checkpoint, and it will not force them to wait to play the game. It will instead keep the player playing the game and will still penalize them for dying without being able to take advantage of fast respawns.

@Nevalistis
You acknowledge that the current system is terribly flawed. Why not use the PTR to play test an idea similar to this?

Please do not make me wait in the 'death lobby'
~Thanks

Let us be clear. This thread is not in the least about class nerfs/buffs/builds. Please don't whine here about how your class feels nerfed in PTR. This is also not a place to QQ about elite affixs or Grift damage output. Lastly this is a topic to improve the quality of life of Softcore players, this is not a thread to discuss hardcore vs softcore. None of that is the topic of dicussion here.

Edited:
Updated Group play. Added theme identification
[Post edited two times, last edit by BobtheSlayer#1289 at November-24-2014 2:37 PM PST (5 years ago)]
Avatar of Nevalistis
Nevalistis
Grift Death forces players to not play the game(8)November-20-2014 2:37 PM PST (5 years ago) Go to Blizzard forum post
Posted by: BobtheSlayer

why not penalize my time? Add on a couple of seconds to the time elapsed meter.


We're toying around with a few different solutions, and this is the most likely option. Wyatt shared some of the thought process on Reddit recently, but here's the summary in case you missed it:

We're not happy with the current situation where your resurrection location is flooded with monsters and you're unable to recover. However, we also want to avoid creating a situation that makes you have to calculate on the spot which is more advantageous, resurrecting at your corpse or reviving at your last checkpoint. It's contradictory to the goal of making the death penalty consistent.

In short, we're aware of the issue, and while we haven't decided on a final solution yet, an option to revive at checkpoint for a small penalty is likely.
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