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Druin #1518
[Feedback] - Shenlong's Spirit(1)Category: PTR FeedbackAugust-14-2014 3:09 PM PDT (7 years ago) Go to Blizzard forum post
Hey again!

In the last batch of PTR changes, Shenlong's Spirit had its set bonus adjusted dramatically from 300% weapon damage to 1,200% weapon damage.

This is a big buff but there remains one major roadbump to making this a successful set.

Shenlong's Spirit has an "ICD" or Internal Cooldown that keeps it from being viable compared to the other options available.

I am going to do some math that shows how the current Shenlong's matches up with the best functional alternative in the best spec suited for the set.

If you don't care about the math part, here is a nice tl;dr for you!

tl;dr --
  • Shenlong's being buffed from 300% to 1,200% damage is a good step
  • It currently has an ICD of 3 seconds
  • This ICD makes it deal ~70% of the damage you get from 2x 20% fire-damage weapons in the most well-suited spec
  • Suggestion -- change the ICD to 1/APS with a 50% proc chance (on attack) which would put it in line with Odyn / TF / Shard / Rime and would give fire monks a much wanted wep-proc that even thematically fits their playstyle

  •     Math
    The example we are going to use is the Fire-LTK-GNK build.

    This build can use Lashing Tail Kick - Spinning Flame Kick which is a line-nuke that does fire damage. As Shenlong's also does fire damage in a line and GNK also does fire damage in a line, this is (as far as I know) the best possible application of the new Shenlong's set.

    This set may be usable in other builds but it should, by all reasoning, be less efficient in those.

    The current normal setup for a Fire-LTK-GNK build is to use Burning Axe of Sankis + Devastator / Sun Keeper / TF.

    For this example we will use Devastator because it's the most strait forward and the largest flat-DPS increase.

    The baseline stats we will use are --
    60% Fire Skill damage w/o weps (gloves/bracers/ammy assuming Unity+RoRG instead of SoJ)
    1.6 APS (a normal APS level for dual-1h weapons)

    Shenlong's does 1,200% weapon damage * 1.6 (fire_mod) = 1,920% weapon damage per cast
    Assuming it procs "on cooldown" it hits once per 3 seconds
    1,920 / 3 = 640% weapon damage per second

    Sankis + Devastator increase damage in a different way
    LTK + GNK proc dos 755% (LTK) + 700% (GNK) in a line for a total of 1,455% per attack
    1,455 * 1.6 (fire_mod) = 2,328% per hit
    Unlike Shen's, LTK and GNK both hit at your APS
    This means that they do 2,328 * 1.6 (APS) = 3,724% per second

    Now, let's add Sankis + Dev to the equation. We will assume we replaced weapons with identical stats minus the fire damage.
    LTK + GNK proc still does 755 + 700 = 1,455% per attack
    1,455 * 2.0 (new_fire_mod) = 2,910% per hit
    2,328 * 1.6 (APS) = 4,656% per second

    This is a difference of 4,656 - 3,724 = 931% weapon damage per second

    So, Shenlong's provides 640% WD*ele/sec compared to Sankis + Dev's 931%.

    Additionally, Sankis has one of the best weapon procs in the whole game (infinite Ignore Pain).

    With this in mind, it is unlikely anyone will be able to competitively use Shenlong's.

    Change Shenlong's ICD from 3 seconds to 1/APS
    Change Shenlong's proc chance from "on attack always" to "on attack ~50% of the time"

    This will reward players for stacking IAS but will keep the proc at a fairly reasonable 600% weapon damage / hit which is in-line with Odyn / TF / SoH / Rime while providing a unique "line nuke" flavor and giving fire monks a much-needed proc weapon.

    It should feel rewarding to complete a set ... so let's make it.

    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
    Druin, the happy monk
    Avatar of John Yang
    John Yang
    [Feedback] - Shenlong's Spirit(58)August-15-2014 4:59 PM PDT (7 years ago) Go to Blizzard forum post
    Thanks for your continued feedback and analysis. As a math guy myself, I appreciate it a lot.

    To start, there are some assumptions made in the examples which I’d like to point out, clarify, and add to for the record:
    • Burning Axe of Sankis and Devastator are not a simple net +20% Fire damage each when compared to Shenlong's. Those two “+20% Fire Damage” affixes replace “+10% Damage [to this Weapon]” affixes, and if we assume +60% Fire Damage from other gear, actually result in <10% increase in total player damage each.
    • Shenlong’s other set bonuses (+250 Dex, +4 Spirit/second) account for roughly 4% total player damage.
    • Devastator/Burning Axe of Sankis’ +Fire damage benefits your other sources of fire damage (e.g. generators, Mystic Ally, etc).
    • Burning Axe of Sankis’ Ignore Pain proc is quite strong, as you said.

    Balancing items is a complex problem sometimes given all the variables in the equation. Occasionally this is a matter of math but we always take into account the fantasy of a legendary power and how it plays in practice. In the end, a lot of the assumptions in this comparison even out so your conclusion is reasonably accurate. As for your suggestion of 50% proc rate and lower corresponding ICD, we feel that more reliability works better for this specific kind of legendary power (proc line damage).

    Given our internal testing and observations, Shenlong’s Spirit’s internal cooldown has been reduced from 3 seconds to 3 / Attacks_Per_Second seconds, which brings it down to 1.86 seconds at most, with no other sources of attack speed increases.

    Hope you all enjoy the “aiming your melee attacks with ranged enemies in mind” gameplay of Gyana Na Kashu and Shenlong’s Spirit as much as I do.
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